Regjistruar: 03/01/2003
Vendbanimi: Today
Mesazhe: 1498

So which is the basis for the non denominational church, new or old testament or both? Culture thousands of years ago was different than what it is today. Some of these denominations probably developed to account for that difference. Should they evolve? Things that were moral then and even permissively legal, we might not say are moral or legal today. What's your take on this?

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Regjistruar: 24/07/2003
Vendbanimi: in you
Mesazhe: 3137

(journalistic i may say...

It seems you are eager to learn more and I would be happy to answer them. You can read the book Will the real heretics please stand up? for more clarification on what things early Christians believe, which coincides with how i have been living so far.

Key points of the book are:
1-once you become a Christian you gain a new identity, entering in God's Kingdom, and the values are completly different.You put God first and the rest, second, or third in your priority.
2- the belief seperates you from the world due to its radical change in the set of values.
John 15;18-19
If the wolrd hates you ,you know that it hated me before it hated you....Yet because you are not of the world,but I chose you out of the world ,therefore the world hates you. (Jesus's words)
3-unconditional love
A new command I give to you, that you love one-another as I have loved you. By this all men will know that you are my disciples =students, if you have love for one-another. John 13:34-35.
4-Obedient trust
You beleive in God, believe also in me.He who has my commandments and keeps them ,it is he who loves me. John 14:1,21
----

Ok, so, is right and wrong simply a matter of culture????

We have already established int he survery of worldviews that it is not simply a matter of culture, that one cannot just do whatever the person likes and pleases because relativity won't hold water, it would be complete chaos.
However some fondamentals stay and culutres do not differ much from 2010 years ago.

In the book, page 26, it starts with divorce. The Romans back in the day practiced divorce , at least 4 ,5 times , it was popular,it was commonplace.
Divorce in Christian terms is only allowed in case of marital unfaithfullness. ( based on Jesus's words) { the topic of marriage is much braoder than this with specific cases to be discussed and to seek counseling and consulation in which counseling is something I have studied on: to seek the grey areas of morality, however this IS A RULE OF THUMB and Christians strive to live by it}

Abortion, page 27, lacking the modern means of birth controll, Romans took care of unwanted pregnancies in three ways: strangling newborn babies, abandoning babies by the roadside, or aborting of fetus.
"The Christian lawyer, MArk Felix chided the Romans: " There are some women among you who by drinking special potions extinguishing the life of the future human in their bowels, thus commiting murder before they even give birth." This was considered compeltey moral and civilized behavior however in the Christian values: everyone is equal and is created equal.

Clothing: The women in the church wore modest clothing, simple and with not much adornment as their Roman fellows. However the church back i nthe day and today does not try to legislate the type of clothing ,as long as it is respectable to the body, that shuold be ok.

Entertainment :what kind of theater shows or being part of gladiator arenas where people were killed was a NO NO to Christians as they valued life. Nowadays: what kind of movies you watch and songs you listen to, pure or not? Again this is atopic that also requires individual exploration. If a man say struggles with impure thoughts( thoughts not pleasing to God) , maybe he should cut out watching movies with sex scenes in it. If a woman has agressive tendencies( uncontrolled anger is not godly), she should refrain herself from watching violent movies. Anything that could contaminate the purity of heart needs to be cut out.

Evolution before Darwin
Evolution was not a foreign concept to the Romans. They enjoyed seeing people being killed because they beleived that man was simply a high developed animal. Educated Romans shared many of the same views as today's secular scientists:
Here's what one early Christian wrote " Some men deny the existence of any Divine power. Others inquire daily as to whether or not one exists. Still others would construct the whole fabric of the universe by chance accidents and by random collision ,fashioning it by the movement of atoms of different shapes."
The book on page 34 goes on to say: "Educated Greeks and Romans ridiculed Christians for their belief in creation. Those same intellectuals freely accepted the writings of other ethnic groups concerning the origin of man-no matter whow ridiculous they were. But they summarily rejected the writings of Jews and Chrsitians on the subject of creation-no matter how much sense they made. "

The role of women. Roman women were not of a submissive character. A Roman commented: We rule the world but our women rule us.
Amongst the Christians it was known that "all humans aree born alike, with a capactiy and ability to reason, feel without preference of age, sex, or dignity." (Mark felix)
Clement wrote: Let us..understand that the virtue of man and woman is the same. For if the God of both is one, the master of both is also one."
A couple of scriptures that have been misinterpreted during the years about the role of women: 1 corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:11 and 12 were mentioned in the letters so that the women may learn to be of submissive character, gentle and not like the culture of the time.

The issue of culture is broad, these are the fondamental things Christians believe in. As far as day to day choices ,that is of personal/individual exploration of worshipping God which simple guidelines just wont' do.
As far as different laws that come to play in nowadays society- AGAIN, because the Christian lives under God's sovereinty, he/she needs to choose to obey the law which is good and not obey a law that does not glorify God,is opposed to God's nature. If during the time of Hitler, a law was issued do kill all the jews, a true Christian would not obey such law, would defy it and risk his/her life with the clear conscience of doing the right thing. You may wanna read Deitrich Bonhoeffer- a Christian spy in the times of Hitler.
But ,again as a rule of thumb, Jesus' teaching was past the law. He taught about love and usually the law is as a tool to correct someone. People who strive to love and do the right thing stray away from being at the edge of lawbreaking, unless it defies God's nature.
So when Jesus was asked what the two greatest commandments were, he replied: The first is love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul with all your mind and with all your strength and the second is like it;love your neighbor as yourself. Math 22:37-39.

Going on: The book goes on to explain the doctrine of salvation, how to be come a Christian. This is very important because many churches could have down some of the values mentioned above and miss the process of how one is saved.

To answer your question about Old and New Testament. The Christians who wrote the letters of the New Testament: John, Luke, Peter, Paul,Matthew, James ( the half-brother of Jesus) etc referred a lot of their letters on the passages of the Old Testament books. Their letters were a continuation of God's story so to speak, only under a different Covenant, or agreement, that of Jesus's blood for the forgiveness of sins. The Old testament, only completes the entire picture. There are a lot of prophetic passages that tell about the coming of Christ in the Old Testament books however the Old testament is not practiced by Christians for obvious reasons that Christians are disciples=students of Christ and Christ makes the New testament or New Covenant.

that's it for now, let me know of any other questions.

__________________
Philippians 4:8-Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

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Regjistruar: 24/07/2003
Vendbanimi: in you
Mesazhe: 3137

these are some books on factual resources about Christianity.

On church history:
1-Turning Points : Decisive Moments in the history of Christianity- Mark Noll -3rd Ed.
2-Documents of the Christian church, 4th Ed, Edited by Henry Bettenson & Chris Maunder.

I friend of mine who is going for theology ,since he is leading a church, was reading these books and I took the info to buy and read them myself.

__________________
Philippians 4:8-Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

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Regjistruar: 24/07/2003
Vendbanimi: in you
Mesazhe: 3137

On early Christian writers:

1-We Don't speak great things, we live them-by Justin Martyr and Mark Felix

This is a contemporary translation of two early Christian works: Justin Martyr's First Apology and Mark Felix's Octavius.

Justin Martyr's First Apology is the oldest Christian apology still in existence in its entirety. It is arguably the most valuable Christian writing of the second century. Among other things, Justin describes how baptism was practiced in his day and what a typical Sunday morning worship service was like.

Mark Felix's Octavius is perhaps the finest apologetic work produced by the early church. The setting of this work is a lively debate between a Christian and a pagan. Through the course of the debate, Mark Felix reveals what most Roman pagans thought about the Christians and how the early Christians responded to these accusations. It is not only one of the most readable early Christian works, it's also a true work of literature.

2- The One who knows God by Clement of Alexandria

What does it mean to really know God? If you had sat at the feet of a respected Christian teacher in the second century, what would you have learned about knowing God? Clement of Alexandria was such a teacher. This book has insights on what it truly means to know God. Among the topics that Clement discusses are: the proper use of wealth, true and false repentance, separation from the world, love, holiness, and the value of the inspired Scriptures.

__________________
Philippians 4:8-Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

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