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Fajtori
Apo jo?

Regjistruar: 11/06/2002
Vendbanimi: Europe
Mesazhe: 10706

Nuk mendoj se mud te kesh shoke klase ne hasem, sepse rrine mbyllur dhe nuk shkojne as ne shkolle.

Mund te argumentohet se kjo nuk eshte "face of Albania" por nuk e luan as topi qe eshte "real". Aq sa jam kurioz cfare behet ne Kiras gjate ketyre permbytjeve, ku dihet se jetojne te ngujuarit.

Edhe njehere realiteti eshte aty, por shqiptaret nuk duan ta shikojne me pretendimin se mesatarja nuk jeton ne ngujim. E pra, te ngujuarit e kane origjinen tek shqiptari mesatar, sepse ngujimi (e thone dokumentaret) tregon se nuk ka shtet. Mungesa e shtetit nuk fillon e mbaron tek gjakmarrja. Perkundrazi eshte njeriu mesatar, shoky yt i klases, ne mos ti vete, qe nuk di te ndertoje shtet dhe detyron format e gjakmarrjes te zevendesojne shtetin.

Ne kete kontekst gjakmarrja tregon tamam "real face of Albania", sepse sado te mbyllen syte per te pare gardhin personal, Shqiperia fillon tek korrupsioni i policit ne Tirane, tek kalimi i semaforit me te kuq, dhe mbaron tek format e gjakmarrjes. E gjitha eshte Shqiperia dhe mentaliteti qe nuk pranon (ose nuk meriton) te kete shtet. Shqiptaret jane njerezit e klaneve, oligarkive, korrupsionit. Te gjitha keto i mbajne dhe justifikojne me pretendimin se dhe bota eshte e korruptuar, me klane, me oligarki. Kaq u mjafton te vazhdojne ne kushtet qe jane.

P.s. This thread would have been better to discuss in english, so we don't talk like "insiders" and let the world understand our points.

Denonco kėtė mesazh tek moderatorėt | IP: e regjistruar

Mesazh i vjetėr 12 Janar 2010 10:49
Fajtori nuk po viziton aktualisht forumin Kliko kėtu pėr Profilin Personal tė Fajtori Kliko kėtu pėr tė kontaktuar me Fajtori (me Mesazh Privat) Vizito faqen personale tė Fajtori't! Kėrko mesazhe tė tjera nga: Fajtori Shto Fajtori nė listėn e injorimit Printo vetėm kėtė mesazh Shto Fajtori nė listėn e monitorimit Ndrysho/Fshij Mesazhin Pėrgjigju Duke e Cituar
Fajtori
Apo jo?

Regjistruar: 11/06/2002
Vendbanimi: Europe
Mesazhe: 10706

UNCOVERED: Drug Lords rampant in Albania



Albanian authorities are battling criminal gangs producing and smuggling drugs - a trade which has surged since the end of decades of communism.
But a TV reporter has put himself in the front-line uncovering and filming illicit drug plantations - helping police target the drugs gangs.

Produced by Russia Today, 2009, based on Albanian TV program "Xhungel".

P.s. This reportage investigates drug trafficking at a broad view. Yet no albanian or foreign TV have investigated the big guys of drug business. Their names are highly secret, even traffickers themself don't know who is the big boss. It's easy to imagine that the boss stays in Tirana, driving extremely expensive cars. They can be friends with ministers, senators and often finance electoral campaigns for some political party.

Modifikuar nga Fajtori datė 12/01/2010 ora 11:31

Denonco kėtė mesazh tek moderatorėt | IP: e regjistruar

Mesazh i vjetėr 12 Janar 2010 11:21
Fajtori nuk po viziton aktualisht forumin Kliko kėtu pėr Profilin Personal tė Fajtori Kliko kėtu pėr tė kontaktuar me Fajtori (me Mesazh Privat) Vizito faqen personale tė Fajtori't! Kėrko mesazhe tė tjera nga: Fajtori Shto Fajtori nė listėn e injorimit Printo vetėm kėtė mesazh Shto Fajtori nė listėn e monitorimit Ndrysho/Fshij Mesazhin Pėrgjigju Duke e Cituar
shelgu
-

Regjistruar: 27/11/2007
Vendbanimi: EU
Mesazhe: 8928

Citim:
Po citoj ato që tha Fajtori
Nuk mendoj se mud te kesh shoke klase ne hasem, sepse rrine mbyllur dhe nuk shkojne as ne shkolle.

Mund te argumentohet se kjo nuk eshte "face of Albania" por nuk e luan as topi qe eshte "real". Aq sa jam kurioz cfare behet ne Kiras gjate ketyre permbytjeve, ku dihet se jetojne te ngujuarit.

Edhe njehere realiteti eshte aty, por shqiptaret nuk duan ta shikojne me pretendimin se mesatarja nuk jeton ne ngujim. E pra, te ngujuarit e kane origjinen tek shqiptari mesatar, sepse ngujimi (e thone dokumentaret) tregon se nuk ka shtet. Mungesa e shtetit nuk fillon e mbaron tek gjakmarrja. Perkundrazi eshte njeriu mesatar, shoky yt i klases, ne mos ti vete, qe nuk di te ndertoje shtet dhe detyron format e gjakmarrjes te zevendesojne shtetin.

Ne kete kontekst gjakmarrja tregon tamam "real face of Albania", sepse sado te mbyllen syte per te pare gardhin personal, Shqiperia fillon tek korrupsioni i policit ne Tirane, tek kalimi i semaforit me te kuq, dhe mbaron tek format e gjakmarrjes. E gjitha eshte Shqiperia dhe mentaliteti qe nuk pranon (ose nuk meriton) te kete shtet. Shqiptaret jane njerezit e klaneve, oligarkive, korrupsionit. Te gjitha keto i mbajne dhe justifikojne me pretendimin se dhe bota eshte e korruptuar, me klane, me oligarki. Kaq u mjafton te vazhdojne ne kushtet qe jane.

P.s. This thread would have been better to discuss in english, so we don't talk like "insiders" and let the world understand our points.



Dhe drama vazhdon...

Nuk ka asnje cudi ne kete mes. Evolucioni socia i shqiptareve ka qene i tille. Nuke shte faji i askujt dhene fakt gjendja e shqiperise reflekon ate skene qe duhet te jete. Nuk ka si te jete ndryshe.

Kombet kur zhvillohen ne menyre natyrale, pesojne ndryshime sociale evolutive te tilla qe nuk kane asnje nevoje per shperthime, apo letargji.

Shqiptaret, jo per faj te tyre kane qene pre e ndryshimeve sociale te tilla qe sigurisht sot, do te reflektohen ne kete menyre.

Histori e shkurter:

Roma pushtoi Shqiperine, ose Ilirine, ne nje kohe qe ky vend po jetonte nje zhvillim natyral nen mbretrit e tij. U implementua sistemi skllavopronar romak.

Turqia na pushtoi, atehere kur princat shqiptare po formonin nje strukture sociale tipike per periudhen. Perseri nje implementim i dyte, absurd per shqiptarin dhe me pasoja katastrofike te cilat reflektohen dukshem akoma.

Komunizmi, erdhi me popmpozitet dhe donte te sillte kapercome te tilla etapash qe habiten te madhe  e te vogel. Pasojat duken.

Pranje shoqeri e zhvilluar ne menyre te tille pa tjeter qe do te cfaqe femomene sociale te cuditshme, mostruoze.

Tani, ne fakt, ne po jetojme nje zhvillim normal, megjithse askujt nuk i pelqen. Ky eshte zhvillimi qe duhet te ndjeke nje komb. Por ky zhvillim do te cfare ne cdo hap pasojat e atyre mutavioneve sociale qe shkrjta me siper. Jane keto pasoja dhe do te jene edhe per shume vjet. Jeta e nje kombi eshte shume e gjate dhe ndryshimet duan shume breza qe te ndodhim. Ne nuk mund te sillemi si francezet qe e paten kombin perhere te lidhur e te konsoliduar, as si anglezet qe kane 100 vjet qe vetem zhvillohen.

Bekoni kete tranzicion qe ne fakt na pelqen fare pak, por qe eshte pikerisht jeta jone e vertete dhe pa maska

Denonco kėtė mesazh tek moderatorėt | IP: e regjistruar

Mesazh i vjetėr 12 Janar 2010 11:51
shelgu nuk po viziton aktualisht forumin Kliko kėtu pėr Profilin Personal tė shelgu Kliko kėtu pėr tė kontaktuar me shelgu (me Mesazh Privat) Kėrko mesazhe tė tjera nga: shelgu Shto shelgu nė listėn e injorimit Printo vetėm kėtė mesazh Shto shelgu nė listėn e monitorimit Ndrysho/Fshij Mesazhin Pėrgjigju Duke e Cituar
Fajtori
Apo jo?

Regjistruar: 11/06/2002
Vendbanimi: Europe
Mesazhe: 10706

Dmth shqiptaret kane qe ne kohen e Ilirive ne tranzicion?

Ky eshte justifikimi i fundit?

Ahhh, jo qe atehere? Qe kur pra? Kur i ka filluar tranzicioni dhe sa do zgjaska kur kane kaluar 20 vjet nga ndryshimet komuniste?

Evidenca e krimit nuk eshte turp per shqiptaret. Eshte thjesht tranzicion i bekuar, right ?

Tranzicion nga romaket, otomanet, komunistet, amerikanet... ahhh keta fajtore qe si gjejme kurre mes nesh ditet e sotme.

__________________
Ne vendin tim, ne vendin tend, e shpojne lakren, i hedhin mend...

Denonco kėtė mesazh tek moderatorėt | IP: e regjistruar

Mesazh i vjetėr 12 Janar 2010 12:38
Fajtori nuk po viziton aktualisht forumin Kliko kėtu pėr Profilin Personal tė Fajtori Kliko kėtu pėr tė kontaktuar me Fajtori (me Mesazh Privat) Vizito faqen personale tė Fajtori't! Kėrko mesazhe tė tjera nga: Fajtori Shto Fajtori nė listėn e injorimit Printo vetėm kėtė mesazh Shto Fajtori nė listėn e monitorimit Ndrysho/Fshij Mesazhin Pėrgjigju Duke e Cituar
Balerina
Rose of Silence

Regjistruar: 31/08/2006
Vendbanimi: usa
Mesazhe: 1525

Citim:
Po citoj ato që tha Fajtori
Nuk mendoj se mud te kesh shoke klase ne hasem, sepse rrine mbyllur dhe nuk shkojne as ne shkolle.

Mund te argumentohet se kjo nuk eshte "face of Albania" por nuk e luan as topi qe eshte "real". Aq sa jam kurioz cfare behet ne Kiras gjate ketyre permbytjeve, ku dihet se jetojne te ngujuarit.

Edhe njehere realiteti eshte aty, por shqiptaret nuk duan ta shikojne me pretendimin se mesatarja nuk jeton ne ngujim. E pra, te ngujuarit e kane origjinen tek shqiptari mesatar, sepse ngujimi (e thone dokumentaret) tregon se nuk ka shtet. Mungesa e shtetit nuk fillon e mbaron tek gjakmarrja. Perkundrazi eshte njeriu mesatar, shoky yt i klases, ne mos ti vete, qe nuk di te ndertoje shtet dhe detyron format e gjakmarrjes te zevendesojne shtetin.

Ne kete kontekst gjakmarrja tregon tamam "real face of Albania", sepse sado te mbyllen syte per te pare gardhin personal, Shqiperia fillon tek korrupsioni i policit ne Tirane, tek kalimi i semaforit me te kuq, dhe mbaron tek format e gjakmarrjes. E gjitha eshte Shqiperia dhe mentaliteti qe nuk pranon (ose nuk meriton) te kete shtet. Shqiptaret jane njerezit e klaneve, oligarkive, korrupsionit. Te gjitha keto i mbajne dhe justifikojne me pretendimin se dhe bota eshte e korruptuar, me klane, me oligarki. Kaq u mjafton te vazhdojne ne kushtet qe jane.

P.s. This thread would have been better to discuss in english, so we don't talk like "insiders" and let the world understand our points.



I'm not denying that these issues are nonexistent, but rather explaining why these videos and the captions that go along with them, portray a false image of Albania. If I was an outsider, after watching these videos, I would end up thinking that these videos portray the majority of Albanians, when in turn it's really the minority. It is because of "fantastic media" like this that average outsiders assume that all of us had goats, or chicken or cows and assume that Albanians carry illegal weapons en masse. Illegal weapons, for instance were carried during times of turmoil, 'civil war,' occasions under which ANY group of people would panic and turn to defend themselves.

Now, perhaps it's the Albanian in me, perhaps it's just the human disillusioned by failed systems or empty promises in Albania or elsewhere, by the totality of corruption that goes on EVERYWHERE, that thinks that sometimes what is right, is not necessarily what is legal.

The problem is, fajtor, that although you stated that Albania starts with corruption of the policeman in Tirana, or the complete lack of respect for traffic lights, it would be difficult for an outsider who has never been to Albania and saw these videos to even imagine that there are traffic lights!
"Gjakmarrja" (Vendetta) does show a lack of the authority of the state, but it exists in deep rural regions of Albania where the state is not present at all.

I understand your frustration with virtually, the lack of a government in our beloved homeland, and with corruption but it's not that different from any other Eastern European, ex-communist country (and we had the craziest dictator of them all, except the Russians perhaps!). Not too long ago I read an article about corruption of doctors in Romania, a member state of the EU, in the New York Times, and made me feel nostalgic (sarcasm) remembering how it was back home.

__________________
Bukė, kripė e zemėr tė mirė.

Denonco kėtė mesazh tek moderatorėt | IP: e regjistruar

Mesazh i vjetėr 12 Janar 2010 17:32
Balerina nuk po viziton aktualisht forumin Kliko kėtu pėr Profilin Personal tė Balerina Kliko kėtu pėr tė kontaktuar me Balerina (me Mesazh Privat) Kėrko mesazhe tė tjera nga: Balerina Shto Balerina nė listėn e injorimit Printo vetėm kėtė mesazh Shto Balerina nė listėn e monitorimit Ndrysho/Fshij Mesazhin Pėrgjigju Duke e Cituar
ingmetalboy
without a trace

Regjistruar: 06/12/2004
Vendbanimi: wherever I may room
Mesazhe: 1008

I have a Slovak friend and actually I got drunk one night and actually listened to what he had to say about his country. After that I made some research of my own. Guess what, they just got their independence in 1993 and their history is worst then ours, full of foreign invasions. First the Hungarians and then the Ottomans and then the Austro-Hungarians and so on. I bet this was not easy for them but it looks like they are doing not so bad.

I was watching the videos and reading the comments and I found myself scratching from the embarrassment. I believe that its true what Balerina says about those being a minor part of our country, but I feel like the majority doesnt give a damn about this problems or simply pretends that those have nothing to do with them. Making up excuses or closing an eye wont make this things disappear. It takes a strong will to admit mistakes and actually do smth to change them. I think we have what we got.

__________________
"Just because some of us can read and write and do little math, that doesn't mean we deserve to conquer the Universe."- K. Vonnegut

Denonco kėtė mesazh tek moderatorėt | IP: e regjistruar

Mesazh i vjetėr 12 Janar 2010 17:57
ingmetalboy nuk po viziton aktualisht forumin Kliko kėtu pėr Profilin Personal tė ingmetalboy Kliko kėtu pėr tė kontaktuar me ingmetalboy (me Mesazh Privat) Kėrko mesazhe tė tjera nga: ingmetalboy Shto ingmetalboy nė listėn e injorimit Printo vetėm kėtė mesazh Shto ingmetalboy nė listėn e monitorimit Ndrysho/Fshij Mesazhin Pėrgjigju Duke e Cituar
Piktor
Artist

Regjistruar: 03/02/2007
Vendbanimi: larg & afer
Mesazhe: 10972

Te pranosh qe ke te meta eshte normale por qe te evidentosh ato nje nga nje ku jane e ku nuk jane dhe ti bashkojme te gjitha sebashku e te themi se ky eshte realiteti, kjo nuk eshte e drejte.
Ne kete pike jam dakort me Balerinen edhe ingmetaboy.
Kush mund ta mohoje qe eshte bere progres. Sot kemi me mijra djem e vajza qe studiojne neper universitete te fameshme ose jo neper bote.
Kemi me mijra emigrante qe ndertojne jeten neper shtetet ku jetojne.
Video e pare thote se 10 demokraci e ne jemi kthyer mbrapa por nuk paraqet aspak realitetin , mjaftonte te na jepte ndonje imazh nga periudha komuniste ose para saj qe te kuptohet ku ishim dhe ku jemi.
Ajo puna e femijve eshte si puna e Aids qe kur bota lengonte ne ishim "imune" Aids na e solli bota bashke me ate lloj tregtie te flliqur.
Gjakmarrja dhe ajo puna e burrneshave eshte nje gje qe nuk i perket tere Shqiperise por as mund te thuash as zonave sepse dhe andej ka tendence te zhduket.

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Mesazh i vjetėr 12 Janar 2010 18:30
Piktor nuk po viziton aktualisht forumin Kliko kėtu pėr Profilin Personal tė Piktor Kliko kėtu pėr tė kontaktuar me Piktor (me Mesazh Privat) Kėrko mesazhe tė tjera nga: Piktor Shto Piktor nė listėn e injorimit Printo vetėm kėtė mesazh Shto Piktor nė listėn e monitorimit Ndrysho/Fshij Mesazhin Pėrgjigju Duke e Cituar
Fajtori
Apo jo?

Regjistruar: 11/06/2002
Vendbanimi: Europe
Mesazhe: 10706

Ok guys.

Definitely you are right, Albania is not only bad things. Nice things should be shown too. I'll put some other videos later. They will show some picturesque fotos of places in Albania. But I invite you from now to make the difference between those videos and the real documentaries which are already in this thread. And probably wonder ourselves if albanians' pride can rely on something that nature gave them, not they constructed.

On my research for documentaries I couldn't find any talking about progress in Albania. In today's newspapers we find mostly foreign journalists traumatized: from the street traffic, from people selling their children, from sworn virgins, from blood feuds, etc. On the first documentary you could see a crowd of tourists looking to a cow eating trash in the street. This is Albania to the eyes of foreigners. And albanians should see with their eyes to understand how far from civilization they are.

Albanians students studying abroad mean nothing. There are three simple reasons for that:

First, Albania doesn't offer a normal enviroment so these professionals can go back and help building Albania. There can be even some jealousy from those living in Albania, which doesn't like students from abroad come back and take good positions in the job market (normal logic). The truth is that Albania doesn't even want emigrants to vote. Last time one of my friends said "can you imagine if emigrants could vote, can you imagine what a mess would become Albania, even more of jpw is already messed up?".

Second, professionals are simply not appreciated in Albania. One of the theorists of the Venus Project (see Zeitgeist movie) dissociate between politicians and professionals and posits that politicians shouldn't exist at all. They know to do nothing. They just want to manage countries and get power on their hands. Back to Albania, you can understand how this is true. Albania is a mass of people going after politics and politicians. People like Ilir Meta know nothing on any specific field and govern whatever ministry they want. These people use the power to help their side of oligarchy and have more power in the future. It's just a matter of power. A student educated abroad is a professional which simply is NOT appreciated in Albania. The only way Albania appreciate you is by entering politics (like Gerti Bogdani). And professionally speaking Albania offers... nothing. No big university, just corrupt professors, no big company to get some experience, no scientific research, nothing that albanians can create alone, without help from abroad.

Third, having albanian students going abroad to study shouldn't be of any pride, because demonstrates that Albania doesn't even offer good education.

------------------------
After all, we should start to think if our culture has basically failed. And the word "culture" really says it all: the mentality that rules Albania today and constrain honest people to leave the country. Because the logic is simple like that, if honest people is forced to leave and the state is governed by an oligarchy raised on corruption, personal power, and disrespect, how can you even think that Albania can get (or is getting) better. The truth is that nearly all institutions have failed. Education is poor and often based on corruption. The police is there to respect the oligarchy and to find small thieves and unprotected normal people. Whoever wins the elections becomes untouchable, the laws become relative and his side of oligarchy will start to proliferate. The business of opposing side will be fought, etc. Normal people is ignorant (and maschilist), and they have to make justice on their own. The oligarchy is trying hard to keep them ignorant. Religions, on the other side, are trying to exploit their ignorance and get more fans.

This is Albania my friends, you can see it every day on the news... if you are able to read through the corrupted albanian news, which continue to work exactly like in the communist era, telling part of the truth, going after politics and only barely touching the real need for change in Albania.

__________________
Ne vendin tim, ne vendin tend, e shpojne lakren, i hedhin mend...

Modifikuar nga Fajtori datė 12/01/2010 ora 19:38

Denonco kėtė mesazh tek moderatorėt | IP: e regjistruar

Mesazh i vjetėr 12 Janar 2010 19:30
Fajtori nuk po viziton aktualisht forumin Kliko kėtu pėr Profilin Personal tė Fajtori Kliko kėtu pėr tė kontaktuar me Fajtori (me Mesazh Privat) Vizito faqen personale tė Fajtori't! Kėrko mesazhe tė tjera nga: Fajtori Shto Fajtori nė listėn e injorimit Printo vetėm kėtė mesazh Shto Fajtori nė listėn e monitorimit Ndrysho/Fshij Mesazhin Pėrgjigju Duke e Cituar
Piktor
Artist

Regjistruar: 03/02/2007
Vendbanimi: larg & afer
Mesazhe: 10972

E si paska deshtuar kur nuk ka trasheguar.
Me duket se jemi kontradiktore ketu Fajtor.
Qe te kesh falimentuar do te thote te kesh pasur diçka, çfare trasheguam qe falimentuam.
Trashegojme sundimin e te hujave dhe me pas komunizmin dhe tani qe po ngrihemi ne kembe paskemi falimentuar.

Denonco kėtė mesazh tek moderatorėt | IP: e regjistruar

Mesazh i vjetėr 12 Janar 2010 19:57
Piktor nuk po viziton aktualisht forumin Kliko kėtu pėr Profilin Personal tė Piktor Kliko kėtu pėr tė kontaktuar me Piktor (me Mesazh Privat) Kėrko mesazhe tė tjera nga: Piktor Shto Piktor nė listėn e injorimit Printo vetėm kėtė mesazh Shto Piktor nė listėn e monitorimit Ndrysho/Fshij Mesazhin Pėrgjigju Duke e Cituar
ingmetalboy
without a trace

Regjistruar: 06/12/2004
Vendbanimi: wherever I may room
Mesazhe: 1008

Im with you Fajtor. I completely understand and agree with most of your observations, but only acting as the prophet of the dooms day doesnt help much. You cant say that our culture has "failed". That is just giving up. We can't give up on who we are, but what we can do is use the best of what we got and turn things around. I believe that we can all agree that our strongest characteristic is pride. That can be our salvation or our death (as we all know). Call me a dreamer or whatever you want but I believe that we can use that to do better. But first we need to want to be better. Thats what is missing or lost or stolen.

__________________
"Just because some of us can read and write and do little math, that doesn't mean we deserve to conquer the Universe."- K. Vonnegut

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Mesazh i vjetėr 12 Janar 2010 21:27
ingmetalboy nuk po viziton aktualisht forumin Kliko kėtu pėr Profilin Personal tė ingmetalboy Kliko kėtu pėr tė kontaktuar me ingmetalboy (me Mesazh Privat) Kėrko mesazhe tė tjera nga: ingmetalboy Shto ingmetalboy nė listėn e injorimit Printo vetėm kėtė mesazh Shto ingmetalboy nė listėn e monitorimit Ndrysho/Fshij Mesazhin Pėrgjigju Duke e Cituar
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