Regjistruar: 08/10/2005
Vendbanimi: My soul
Mesazhe: 4073

"Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?" "Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?" "Absolutely."

"Is God good?" "Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?" "Yes."

"Are you good or evil?" "The Bible says I'm evil." The professor grins knowingly.

"Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment,

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?" "Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good!" "I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't." The student does not answer, so the professor continues.

"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?" The student remains silent. "No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?" Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?" The student doesn't hesitate on this one, "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?" The student falters, "From God."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?" "Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?" "Yes." "So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil." Again, the student has no answer.

"Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?" The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?" The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question, "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. Tell me," he continues onto another student.

"Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?" The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do.

"The old man stops pacing, "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you.

"Have you ever seen Jesus?" "No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?" "No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?" "Yes." "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist.

"What do you say to that, son?" "Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith." "Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own.

"Professor, is there such thing as heat?" "Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."



"And is there such a thing as cold?" "Yes, son, there's cold too."



"No sir, there isn't." The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain...



"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."



"Everybody or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it." Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?" "Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"



"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?" The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester.

" So what point are you making, young man?" "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed." The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time, "Flawed? Can you explain how?"



"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains... "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought." "It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it." "Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"



"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?" The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.



"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?" The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.



"The student looks around the room, "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter. "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?" Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers, "I guess you'll have to take them on faith." "Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues,



"Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?" Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil. To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.

"The professor sat down.

__________________
Fillimi i nje ngjarje, ku shpaloset ne kohe por lind jashte asaj, eshte njekohesisht perfundimi.

Denonco kėtė mesazh tek moderatorėt | IP: e regjistruar

Regjistruar: 23/07/2003
Vendbanimi: in you
Mesazhe: 3137

perfect, reasonable, common sensical, sounding arguments on faith. Love it Thanks Enigma.



P.S. te shtoj ndonje reflektim ne shqip per temen.

Te jetosh plote, eshte te jetosh me sensin se te nesermen nuk e ke te garantuar. Neser fare lehete mund te ndodh nje aksident dhe -jete e keputur.
Jetet jane pezull, gjithcka mund te shkoje keq.., vetem aspekti i te parit, ndertimi i syrit te njeriut eshte kaq i komplikuar ne vetvete,
ganglionet,
neuronet,
3 conet,
eshte magjike....
Te jetosh plote,eshte te jesh e gatshme qe kur te kerkohet te japesh dicka prej vetes, te mos ngurrosh, te japesh lehtesisht, te lesh te ikin te gjitha gjerat e vogla apo te medha qe i shtrengoj fort sepse i kam arritur me mundim, por e zhveshur erhda ne bote, e zhveshur do iki prej saj, asgje s'marr dot me vete, as thinjat qe mund te shfaqen,as rrudhat, as diturine,asgje...eshte vetem gadishmeria e te dhenit,
have I been spent with everything that's in me in the name of love, in the name of Christ?

__________________
Philippians 4:8-Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

Modifikuar nga lorie datė 10/09/2011 ora 03:18

Denonco kėtė mesazh tek moderatorėt | IP: e regjistruar

Regjistruar: 08/10/2005
Vendbanimi: My soul
Mesazhe: 4073

E persosur jo Lorie por e dija qe do te inkurajonte. Ps anytime

Citim:

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Po citoj ato që tha kurti
lexova para nja 7 oresh from my phone shkrimin qe kishte hedh enigma. tek letersia diku "worth reading" but opens up more questions, argumenti i lezetshme but it confuses me more, it doesnt solve anything. perfundimi i argumentit theksonte qe aty ku mungon prezenca e zotit, aty eshte djalli errersira dhe zoti e lejon kte te ndodhi kastile qe ne te mesojm nga kjo?! pak a shume kshtu e gjeta moralin a asaj story

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Kur nuk je e perfshire ne diskutimi te duket komike perplasja e shkences me fene apo feja me shkencen. Une nuk e mora literally ate shkrimin por me shume e solla ketu per t'i kujtuar vetes se keto te 2ja nuk kane per te patur nje pike te perbashket asnjehere. Edhe mund te jete e vertete ajo qe permend por mbase per ata qe jane ne krye te detyres. Mjafton te hedhesh nje sy historise dhe inisiatoreve te krimeve si dhe mjafton te shohesh kete dokumentar poshte te ndare ne seri per besimtaret "fanatike"(po te ve poshte pjesen e pare prezantuar nga Cooper, me renqethet mishi kur mendoj per kriminelet edhe per njerez ne grupe te caktuar qe ushtrojne veprime c'njerzore).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVs2lA5rqwo

Mesazhi per mua eshte se shkenca eshte e thurur ne hipotezat dhe teori e perderisa njerzit nuk dine gje reth Perendise te mbetet te besosh e jo te hedhesh nje seri fenomenesh per te vertetuar ato. Per mua Bernard Gert dhe 10 regullat morale ("mos vrit' e 9 tjera qe s'po me vijne ne mendje ), mjaftojne. Agjerimi apo kreshma jane fenomene qe krijohen nga shoqerite per x,y,z arsye.

__________________
Fillimi i nje ngjarje, ku shpaloset ne kohe por lind jashte asaj, eshte njekohesisht perfundimi.

Denonco kėtė mesazh tek moderatorėt | IP: e regjistruar

Regjistruar: 29/12/2007
Vendbanimi: ......
Mesazhe: 5021

yep, ka kristian fanatike qe ky lajmi qe shikova nuk eshte asgje.

Denonco kėtė mesazh tek moderatorėt | IP: e regjistruar

Regjistruar: 23/07/2003
Vendbanimi: in you
Mesazhe: 3137

besimtare fanatike- asnjehere nuk e kam ditur kuptimin e ketij epiteti apo pershkrimi. What does it even mean 'fanatike'?

Qe eshte rrezik shoqeror? Qe dikush vret sepse 'zoti e ka derguar te vrase' ? Blind faith? Can it even be called faith at all? Faith in what?
Me vijne nder mend vetem disa skenare:
1-ose personi eshte rritur ne nje ambjent 'brain wash' qe ne vogeli dhe tani i beson se te vrasesh x popullate po ben vullnetin e zotit
2- ose vuan nga delusions and psychosis with ideas of reference that he/she has been especially picked by god to do a special mission such as killing so and so...

To sincerely believe in something doesn't mean that something is right to believe, esp. from individuals whose reality is quite skewed. They need professional help to get their sanity back.

Now this point doesn't quite help my point of view in believing in God but according to Jesus you will detect who truly tries to live by what God commands by the 'fruit' in his life , a good tree produces good fruit and a bad tree produces bad fruit-he says- fruit = works,deeds. And also the two main commandements mentioned in the New Testament are
1- love the Lord your God with all your heart,mind and strength and
2-love your neighbor as yourself.
It's all about love if you ask me, love God, love and respect yourself and do so for the people around you.

The term 'besimtare fanatike' is so foreign to me, I don't know where to begin to look as to where it came from.

__________________
Philippians 4:8-Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

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Regjistruar: 01/02/2012
Vendbanimi:
Mesazhe: 1139

Pra, ashtu sikurse i ftohti eshte thjesht mungesa e nxehtesise; ashtu sikurse erresira eshte mungesa e drites;
Ne te nejten menyre "evil" eshte thjesht mungesa e zotit.
Ky eshte morali qe gozhdoi ate profesorin injorant aty me siper?..

Atehere le ta shtrojme pyetjen ndryshe. Pse ben mungesa zoti he? Pse iken zoti?

__________________
mir..

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Regjistruar: 17/05/2009
Vendbanimi: vlore
Mesazhe: 5487

she said that but he said that so she sayd that and he sayd that oj zot plasa te nxehtit fafja e ka fajin
e musha barkjun kafe birr ku me fut ushqmin ska ma vend lol

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